Curse

GloryFox · Jan 12, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

posted by myrealnameismatt
In response to Gaile's post, can you please answer the question that has been asked several times - i.e - why are we banned and not everyone who went down to exploit, specifically.. the Duncan the black glitch that appeared recently? You must admit that there is a direct similarity between the two, maybe not in terms of actual game mechanics, but in the way it appeared to the person doing it? Most of us thought that it was exactly the same deal, a faster way to do something that would eventually be fixed and the precedents had already been set, so let's enjoy it while it's still here.

And as some others have stated, there is nothing worse than having an actual problem and getting an automated answer, if there are only 117 people can we at least speak to a human being? It's not much to ask.

You don't get it she does not have to; so stop asking. Overall it appears that the community as a whole is very glad they did act this time. There has been too much anarchy of late in this game by people thinking its ok to exploit something or someone. Consider it mercy for any situation where they did not perma ban before, instead of thinking mercy is some kind of RIGHT.

Mercy
noun; compassionate or kindly forbearance shown toward an offender, an enemy, or other person in one's power; compassion, pity, or benevolence:

Lady Ana Stacia · Jan 12, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arwen Granger

Not really trying to show off, but I did do Mallyx the hard way many moons ago: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10146676
After that trip I have not killed Mallyx again, not even during this latest episode, and definitely haven't farmed it repeatedly.

Then in that case I truly hope you do get your account back. :-)

Yes I do believe that there are people who where probably banned for a 1 or 2 time thing and for those they should get there accounts back. For those who knew and repeatedly took part I have no sympathy for.

Drop of Fear · Jan 12, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

Sorry but this whole situation has sapped me of most humor. Please dont say to me "chill out", when thousands of hours of my life have been brushed away in an instant.

...and if u've been blocked by mistake because u only beated mallyx a couple of times i wish u to get yor account back, but i'm fairly confident that a vast majority of the infamous "117" exploited this badly and deeply and laughing at how smart they were and are now just trying to jump on the train leading to redemption hoping a.net to forgive them all.
u understand that unbanning anyone who exploited holes for months is not healthy for this game. or any online game at all right? i don't think this is the point of the discussion really.

amongst the 117 there are some blocked by mistake -and with "by mistake" i dont mean "the ones who didnt hack in the first place"- ? fine, no reason to keep such players banned. but i truly hope that the ones deserving it wont go free, it would be a sad day for guild wars lovers.

Exx The Necro · Jan 12, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

But you seem to be confused: The issue isn't about just the hacking, although that is a major concern. The issue is whether someone exploited the game. That is why people who were ferried, and did not actually perform the hack, were also banned. Going to a hidden outpost, cutting off about 80% of a mission, and farming an end-boss in minutes -- when it normally takes a couple of hours to reach him in normal play -- is exploiting the game. And that is against the User Agreement.

Let me give you an example.

One player hacks the client.
He finds a way to turn creatures into fluffy bunnies with zero HP.
He finds that anyone he subsequently takes into a mission also has the Fluffy Bunny Bonus.
He tells 1,000 friends, family, alliance members, maybe he even sells ferry rides with him to get the Fluffy Bunny Bonus.
1,000 people use the cheat.
Is anyone going to suggest that we should only ban the person who hacked?

I hate to tell you Miss Grey, but nearly everyone who has played GW has found a bug or exploit at one time, and used it. Some over and over, some only once. Is everyone who used said exploits going to be banned? If so, the servers of GW are going to be very empty. If someone hacks these exploits and gets the "Fluffy Bunny" bonus, by all means, Ban them, and with a vengence. But the point is, if you are going to ban people because they used the exploit after it was "hacked" then you better get out a bigger ban stick and ban every single person who ever used any kind of exploit, large or small. I agree people who used the exploit should be punished, but isnt a permaban a little extreme. Or does Anet just take it upon themselves to pick and choose who gets punished and how severly. I said it before and Ill say it again, if Anet is going to ban some people for using an exploit, then they should ban EVERYONE who ever used an exploit, not just 117.
If it was truly a hack, I would hope Anet has the ability to detect who it was and crucify them without mercy, but to permaban a person who used the exploit after the "Hack" is assinine, punish, yes, ban,RESOUNDING NO!

myrealnameismatt · Jan 12, 2008, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

/yawn
Did Duncan's exploit had something to do with hacking?

lol
They benefited from the same thing for less "work" (didn't have to hack client) and should receive lesser punishment?

Losing patience. You know nothing about this subject and have nothing to add apart from an opinion - not a fact, kindly keep it to yourself. Do we really need to put "WE DID NOT HACK" on copy and paste before you understand it?

TheGreatPie · Jan 12, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

You don't get it she does not have to; so stop asking. Overall it appears that the community as a whole is very glad they did act this time. There has been too much anarchy of late in this game by people thinking its ok to exploit something or someone. Consider it mercy for any situation where they did not perma ban before, instead of thinking mercy is some kind of RIGHT.

A-net didnt because there was TOO MANY people exploiting WHICH might I add is biased, if ten people killed one person, they get away with it but one person kills someone and they're condemned to death for it, is that right?????

BlackSephir · Jan 12, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob79

snipzor

You seem to be a cool guy so let me ask you this- how many things that you listed involved hacking?
kthx

Quote:

Losing patience. You know nothing about this subject and have nothing to add apart from an opinion - not a fact, kindly keep it to yourself. Do we really need to put "WE DID NOT HACK" on copy and paste before you understand it?

I don't give a rat's ass if it was you that hacked the client or you friend or your friend's friend. The fact is that hacks were involved. Now cry me a river.
Anyway, since you'll lose patience soon, what will you do? Call me dumbs**t and so on so I won't ever see you in GW or here ever again? Cool.

Gaile Gray · Jan 12, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by myrealnameismatt

Most of us thought that it was exactly the same deal, a faster way to do something that would eventually be fixed and the precedents had already been set, so let's enjoy it while it's still here.

If you get stopped by a policeman for speeding, do you wonder "How did you miss the guy ahead of me, driving 10 MPH faster?" I think it's human nature, but the answer is clear: "Because I got caught, and he didn't."

In the larger sense, would we ever presume to tell the police department or the criminal justice system, "You didn't catch (or convict) that criminal, therefore you should not try to catch (or prosecute) any criminals?" No, because that's not the way things work. And yes, we're not talking "real life crimes" in this forum, but I'm hoping an analogy will be helpful. Game issues: Should we not block [this poor name] because [that other poor name] hasn't yet been caught? Should we leave every bots unbanned because we cannot ban them all?

I am not here to debate "that other thing" or "those other players." Other players have made it clear why some issues are larger than others, or why they are handled differently. I do understand the question, but I feel it's off the topic at hand. I came here to give you information about the Mallyx exploit, and to assure you that while we realize that we cannot catch everyone who behaves badly, nor every player whose actions can have a negative effect on other players or the game as a whole, we're not going to stop dealing with those whom we do catch, and we are going to continue trying to handle each issue to the best of our ability.

SirJackassIII · Jan 12, 2008, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by myrealnameismatt

In response to Gaile's post, can you please answer the question that has been asked several times - i.e - why are we banned and not everyone who went down to exploit, specifically.. the Duncan the black glitch that appeared recently? You must admit that there is a direct similarity between the two, maybe not in terms of actual game mechanics, but in the way it appeared to the person doing it? Most of us thought that it was exactly the same deal, a faster way to do something that would eventually be fixed and the precedents had already been set, so let's enjoy it while it's still here.

The precedent hasn't been set. It still hasn't after this. The "exploits" in both cases are completely different. In the case of Duncan, there was a bug that opened the door if only 1 person in the party had the 4 areas done. The problem here would be that the same group can't do it repeadedly, since upon killing Duncan, you need someone else that did the 4 areas. Another difference is that the bug was in at the start of the game, so it could have been intended cfr. The Final Assault in SF. The Last Hierophant itself isn't even clear on that issue, since it all 5 bosses are given as objectives at the same time, suggesting there could be a way to kill Duncan before the others. Apparently, this wasn't so.
The difference with Mallyx is that the quest clearly states you have to beat the 4 other areas before going to kill Mallyx. This was in the game since the start. The Exploit allowed you to bypass that requirement and repeadedly kill Mallyx with the same party. Not only that, but the access to it was gained by exploiting the GH trick, which has been on the edge for a while (but too many people used it to ban them all), but it also abused gaining access to a Dev only outpost, originated by a person that apparently hacked the client.

Both cases are completely different. Another problem with the Duncan bug was that far too many people had used this, and a lesser factor is that it had only been there for about a week. The Mallyx hack/exploit was apparently being used by a small group of people over the course of several months, angstly keeping it quiet, yet now they all plead innocent.

I'm sorry their accounts got banned and they lost their characters, but they were abusing an exploit, knowingly and willingly (except maybe the testers...), so I do believe ANet made the right decission. I am however starting to feel less and less sorry because of the extremely lame excuses they're coming up with.

Cab Tastic · Jan 12, 2008, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob79

Dear Gaile Grey
PLEASE ANSWER THIS

How many people got banned for using the free Zaishen chest "exploit?"

How many people got banned for getting a free ferry to the end of the game?

How many people got banned for getting a ferry to the deep, to urgoz or to slavers exile?

How many people got banned for /resigning in the Warrior Guild hall to be transported ANYWHERE in the game?

How many people got banned for using fort aspenwood, dragging all the necro npcs to the the base.. owning the other team?

How many people got banned for ferrying people from Kamadan to Consulate docks?

How many people have been banned in ab for dying at a gate and using necro transversal to go through it before the timer starts?

How many people have been banned for taking heros into AB and holding 64v64 matches?

How many people have been banned using the Warrior Guild hall trick to ferry people from Kamadan to LA without taking a quest?

How many people got banned for finding a bugged area while mapping and saw the "end of the world" effect?

How many people have been banned for vanquishing Bukdek Byway.. taking 2 quests.. and having to kill 1 enemy to vanquish?

When you question about how I know about all this, its simple. When you play the game for 30 months you find out about all these "exploits."

To say that ferrying to Mallyx is any different from the above is preposterous. Those guilty of any above are in the same position as this "exploit."

My question is.. Why where these not permanent bans?

Are you serious. It is preposterous to compare all of the above to the Mallyx exploit. The profitablility is 1000's of percent higher.

Messy · Jan 12, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

I have a question for you guys....

I have never done a Duncan run, but I know for a fact I have been in Eye Of The North (I think that's where it was) and I have seen parties forming, people spamming.... GLFM Duncan Run..... this was NO secret.

Did you guys go to DOA and Spam.... GLFM Mallyx Run!!! or did you guys keep it a secret and did it amongst yourselves?

I'm sure there were good weapons/ rewards when Duncan was killed, but the community knew about it. There was no need to keep it a secret. A shortcut was found and eventually fixed.

For 5-6 months, some of you managed to keep this place under wraps.., asking people to either join and remain in certain guilds, or demanding secrecy... why??

I find it hard to believe it was just greed. WHat makes sense is you knew this was an exploit and you could get in trouble if it was ever outed. The problem is, you thought a temp ban would be the punishment. None of you were expecting a perma ban.

Phaern Majes · Jan 12, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob79

Dear Gaile Grey
PLEASE ANSWER THIS

How many people got banned for using the free Zaishen chest "exploit?"

How many people got banned for getting a free ferry to the end of the game?

How many people got banned for getting a ferry to the deep, to urgoz or to slavers exile?

How many people got banned for /resigning in the Warrior Guild hall to be transported ANYWHERE in the game?

How many people got banned for using fort aspenwood, dragging all the necro npcs to the the base.. owning the other team?

How many people got banned for ferrying people from Kamadan to Consulate docks?

How many people have been banned in ab for dying at a gate and using necro transversal to go through it before the timer starts?

How many people have been banned for taking heros into AB and holding 64v64 matches?

How many people have been banned using the Warrior Guild hall trick to ferry people from Kamadan to LA without taking a quest?

How many people got banned for finding a bugged area while mapping and saw the "end of the world" effect?

How many people have been banned for vanquishing Bukdek Byway.. taking 2 quests.. and having to kill 1 enemy to vanquish?

When you question about how I know about all this, its simple. When you play the game for 30 months you find out about all these "exploits."

To say that ferrying to Mallyx is any different from the above is preposterous. Those guilty of any above are in the same position as this "exploit."

My question is.. Why where these not permanent bans?

Nobody got banned for getting ferried to the hidden outpost. They got banned for ABUSING AN EXPLOIT. Getting ferried anywhere isn't breaking the EULA. The exploit was skipping the entire quest and going straight to Mallyx. The exploit was shaving hours, possibly even days of time and only killing Mallyx. Do you seriously think out of the thousands of players that only 117 of you were ever ferried to the hidden outpost? Its way more likely that the 117 of you were the worst when it came to benefiting economically from the exploit. AND even if you truly believe all the people involved in your examples deserved to be banned also, then you should be happy that Anet is finally doing something about it, that they are learning from past mistakes. Two wrongs don't make a right, I believe thats how it goes.

Full Metal X · Jan 12, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exx The Necro

I hate to tell you Miss Grey, but nearly everyone who has played GW has found a bug or exploit at one time, and used it. Some over and over, some only once. Is everyone who used said exploits going to be banned? If so, the servers of GW are going to be very empty. If someone hacks these exploits and gets the "Fluffy Bunny" bonus, by all means, Ban them, and with a vengence. But the point is, if you are going to ban people because they used the exploit after it was "hacked" then you better get out a bigger ban stick and ban every single person who ever used any kind of exploit, large or small. I agree people who used the exploit should be punished, but isnt a permaban a little extreme. Or does Anet just take it upon themselves to pick and choose who gets punished and how severly. I said it before and Ill say it again, if Anet is going to ban some people for using an exploit, then they should ban EVERYONE who ever used an exploit, not just 117.
If it was truly a hack, I would hope Anet has the ability to detect who it was and crucify them without mercy, but to permaban a person who used the exploit after the "Hack" is assinine, punish, yes, ban,RESOUNDING NO!

Ever think they may be cracking down on exploiters? I mean this case was small enough that they could ban the people and be done with it, a public example if you will. To prove that they aren't the crap anymore. After the duping incodent I guess you could say it was an eye opener. The ferrying exploit on the other hand was FAR to big to ban everyone involved, so they used this incodent as it was much smaller and easier to contain. You may feel that this is unfair to you because you may have thought you were doing something you had done in the past (exploit) and hadn't got in trouble, well tough luck. Life isn't fair, and ANET doesnt have to be fair either they are taking steps to make the community better. So keep up the good work ANET.

TheGreatPie · Jan 12, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

f you get stopped by a policeman for speeding, do you wonder "How did you miss the guy ahead of me, driving 10 MPH faster?" I think it's human nature, but the answer is clear: "Because I got caught, and he didn't."

In the larger sense, would we ever presume to tell the police department or the criminal justice system, "You didn't catch (or convict) that criminal, therefore you should not try to catch (or prosecute) any criminals?" No, because that's not the way things work. And yes, we're not talking "real life crimes" in this forum, but I'm hoping an analogy will be helpful. Game issues: Should we not block [this poor name] because [that other poor name] hasn't yet been caught? Should we leave every bots unbanned because we cannot ban them all?

I am not here to debate "that other thing" or "those other players." Other players have made it clear why some issues are larger than others, or why they are handled differently. I do understand the question, but I feel it's off the topic at hand. I came here to give you information about the Mallyx exploit, and to assure you that while we realize that we cannot catch everyone who behaves badly, nor every player whose actions can have a negative effect on other players or the game as a whole, we're not going to stop dealing with those whom we do catch, and we are going to continue trying to handle each issue to the best of our ability.

then why didn't everyone get banned for exploiting everything else?

Gaile Gray · Jan 12, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

I apologize Gaile, but I went through several automated responses when I sent in support address lag in November 07. I received several generic answers to solutions, and nothing seamed helpful. It was Incident: 071126-002471 and 071110-001559. Your support team has a log of it.

The fact remains, these bans were done with an automated script done on Wednesday 12pm Pacific. That list was printed off listing account names, bans were done.. no reviews made.

Reviews were made before the bans were placed. How do I know? I was involved in the reviews. I have the spreadsheet. Subject closed.

Puritans Aid · Jan 12, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiden Arcana

Personally knowing Puritan, he means before Anet screwed up the economy with Ursan. After Ursan was introduced, he did the other two areas.

What I mean is, and your Kind of right, That I did only the 2 repeatedly. I never finished the quest before I was brought to this town, and I thought this town was a normal part of guild wars, where you to see it, and how hard it is, maybe you could see that, but yes I joined an ursan group to do the last 2 nearly impossible before ursan groups, and then was showed how to kill mallyx, VIA this area. I did NOT ever complete the quest or kill mallyx before I was brought to this area, and I DID think it was part of the game.

I also would like to point out to gaile gray, that this is reportedly fixed, but I know someone who says they still have this town, and it still works. He hasn't used it, and wont, but would like you to know, just in case you skiped somehow the post he wrote.

Out of the 2700 or so glitches/bugs in this game. I suppose your teams are very very busy.

Gun Pierson · Jan 12, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The issue is whether someone exploited the game. That is why people who were ferried, and did not actually perform the hack, were also banned. Going to a hidden outpost, cutting off about 80% of a mission, and farming an end-boss in minutes -- when it normally takes a couple of hours to reach him in normal play -- is exploiting the game. And that is against the User Agreement.

If a person duo farms UW for ectos, he's making 'ten times' faster money than in normal play. This could be seen as an exploit too, but gladly it isn't at this stage. I'm just worried because the line is vage. Ferrying to Duncan seems to have been an exploit and many players would have been banned, including myself, but we weren't. Don't get me wrong, I don't wanne get banned.

In the old days it was a sport to find glitches and exploits in games and nobody cared that much as nowadays. On the contrary, you were cool. That was before mmo rpg's though and before Starcraft, times have changed.

I made a few controversial posts in here, but I was wrong I guess. In the new gaming culture, cheating and exploiting is a crime with permanent consequences based on an Eula. I still find it a loss of creative freedom, but it's for a good cause I guess, fairness.

bobbylr · Jan 12, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

If you get stopped by a policeman for speeding, do you wonder "How did you miss the guy ahead of me, driving 10 MPH faster?" I think it's human nature, but the answer is clear: "Because I got caught, and he didn't."

In the larger sense, would we ever presume to tell the police department or the criminal justice system, "You didn't catch (or convict) that criminal, therefore you should not try to catch (or prosecute) any criminals?" No, because that's not the way things work. And yes, we're not talking "real life crimes" in this forum, but I'm hoping an analogy will be helpful. Game issues: Should we not block [this poor name] because [that other poor name] hasn't yet been caught? Should we leave every bots unbanned because we cannot ban them all?

I am not here to debate "that other thing" or "those other players." Other players have made it clear why some issues are larger than others, or why they are handled differently. I do understand the question, but I feel it's off the topic at hand. I came here to give you information about the Mallyx exploit, and to assure you that while we realize that we cannot catch everyone who behaves badly, nor every player whose actions can have a negative effect on other players or the game as a whole, we're not going to stop dealing with those whom we do catch, and we are going to continue trying to handle each issue to the best of our ability.

Why are you acting like it s real life? It is a game we all played and spent a good bit of money on. And we do not even get a human to investigate what went on.

Pleas tell me why my account was TERMANTED when you don't even look into my case.

Trub · Jan 12, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

I am not here to debate "that other thing" or "those other players." Other players have made it clear why some issues are larger than others, or why they are handled differently. I do understand the question, but I feel it's off the topic at hand. I came here to give you information about the Mallyx exploit, and to assure you that while we realize that we cannot catch everyone who behaves badly, nor every player whose actions can have a negative effect on other players or the game as a whole, we're not going to stop dealing with those whom we do catch, and we are going to continue trying to handle each issue to the best of our ability.

Maybe that answers the question about the 'other' exploits.

Lord Sojar · Jan 12, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Rich players don't purely farm. Trading is vastly more profitable in the long run. This is the case in just about every online game.

Because clearly my post was to show that the people with thousands of armbraces got them legit.... OH WAIT. Smart up Avarre, clearly you missed the entire point of my mathematical posting. I know your more keen that this.

STOP THIS MADNESS. Clearly you went to an outpost that wasn't even a damned outpost. What did you think it was? Was Duncan an outpost that couldn't just be skipped to? No, you walked in a door, fought a few things, and poof, done.

Mallyx isn't in an outpost, he is in a chain of instances. GET IT? No? Go smash your face in with a broken bottle or brick till you pass out, then when you wake up, hopefully you won't have bled to death, and will understand that exploiting Mallyx for personal gain is/was far worse then Duncan could have ever have been, muchless the stupid guild hall ambassador warp trick.